Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Vaša iskustva, pitanja u vezi sa terapijom "održavanja" - metadon, buprenorphine... Pišite ovdje o svojoj borbi sa ovisnošću, svakodnevnim iskušenjima i problemima s kojima se suočavate.

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noel
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by noel »

Ovaj tramal je čudo, skoro skroz skine krizu i to jako mala doza, danas sam uzeo 75mg i proveo dan normalno, čak sam bio pomalo i raspoložen, prošetao, raspričao se, odmorio... jedino što ne drži dugo, nekih 5-6 sati a onda se zikra vrati u potpunosti. Znam da ovime samo odužujem čitavi proces i da su neke stvari neizbježne, ali stvarno je nevjerojatno koliko ovo olakšava čitavu stvar. Ova marka koju imam sadrži i poveću dozu paracetamola, pa su i bolovi uglavnom nepostojeći. Online je puno oprečnih informacija, kao što to i inače bude, ali evo jedan osvrt na temu koji mi se učinio iskrenim i objektivnim:
As far as withdrawals: there's no time limit, everyone wants to get them behind them ASAP, but sometimes it's just not possible. Using Tramadol to help with detox isn't a bad thing, IT IS NOT AN OPAITE. If you don't want to believe that than so be it. It works like an opiate but isn't. See the research from the University of Kentucky in opiate withdrawal and the use if tramadol. Don't use for more than a week but if if it helps you than do what you need to. Helps with anxiety, RLS, and over all symptoms of withdrawal. If you weren't able to taper your pain meds and are now taking tramadol you are tapering.

Recommended dose of Tramadol is no more than 400mg a day and wouldn't take more than that. Taper for a few days along with Clonidine. Together let you eat and sleep which are the very most important keys to success with withdrawls from Opiates. Vitamins, liquids, gator aid and water are best along with some Imodium for diarrhea. Remember if you don't have severe diarrhea than you not as likely to dehydrate. Dehydration is painful in its self so stay hydrated.

Take a walk, a car ride anything to move as soon as you can, this helps quite a bit. Remember the thoughts you have during withdrawal are the meds talking trying to make you feed your body again, they are not your real thoughts and will fade as time goes by.

A pet around is always good, a big dumb dog and best friend never judges you and loves you unconditionally. Remember, it's a disease a real disease and most people don't understand it. Your not a bad person, god lives you and is here for you. Time is in your side and eventually with time you will feel better.
I btw, nevezano, evo još nešto malo o magneziju i njegovom smirujućem efektu na mišiće i živce, kao i bitnoj ulogi kalcija koji mora biti obavezna dopuna suplementaciji magnezijom, u odgovarajućim količinama:

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The best treatment is with any form of magnesium because magnesium relaxes muscles and nerves. Furthermore, calcium causes contraction in skeletal muscle fibers, and magnesium causes relaxation. When there is too much calcium and insufficient magnesium inside a cell, you can get sustained muscle contraction: twitches, spasms, and even convulsions. Magnesium permits a small amount of calcium to enter a nerve cell, just enough to allow electrical transmission along the nerves to and from the brain, then forces it back outside. Too much calcium, without the balancing effect of magnesium, can irritate delicate nerve cells of the brain. Cells that are irritated by calcium fire electrical impulses repeatedly, depleting their energy stores and causing cell death.
MasacreEnElDiscoBar wrote:sad vishe neznam di sam...samo mjenjam droge...uff...koje sranje ochu se rjeshit te ovisnosti a, molim Boga da mi ostavi neshto....
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noel
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by noel »

Danas je evo šesti dan otkad sam na nuli, i nažalost još ne vidim naznake da bi išlo na bolje... Noći su užasne, vrtim se po krevetu, nerovoza u nogama bude neizdrživa i ništa ne pomaže, pa se potapam lijekovima da to prespavam koliko toliko... Ali kriza budi već nakon sat vremena, pa onda ajmo jovo nanovo.... i tako nekoliko puta do jutra, kad se dižem oko 6-7h, potpuno izmoren.

Sad vidim da se ipak nisam dobro pripremio, ovaj Sanval (Zolpidem) je sranje, to je tableta koja "uspava" a ne tableta za spavanje, ima poluživot od par sati. Frendica ima Dormicum ali dok ga nabavim ovo će vjerojatno već biti i gotovo. Također, Seroquel, atipični antipsihotik bi sigurno zakucao čak i najmanjoj dozi (cca 25mg) a njegov antagonizam na dopaminske receptore bi možda ublažio i nemir u nogama, ako se ne varam (možda je i suprotno, jbga nisam doktor, sve pročitano uvijek uzimajte s dozom rezerve, valjda to ne moram naglašavati).

Iz iskustava drugih znam da je ovo pri kraju, pa ajde... U klinici za detox gledao sam kako ljudi "umiru" danima nakon skoka s dvojke ili jedinice, ali već šesti ili sedmi dan su na nogama, u 80% boljem stanju. Znači još malo, iako svaki organizam je drugačiji...

Malo me brine i ovaj Tramal, uzimam ga već šest dana, nikad u ukupnoj dnevnoj dozi većoj od 100mg (ovo uključuje i noć) što je stvarno malo (postoje doze i po 800 ili 1000mg), skida krizu i pomaže mi da se saberem za dalje, da odmorim, da se najedem, prošetam...E sad, zanima me da li njegovim korištenjem zapravo blokiram, ne znam kako da se bolje izrazim, ajmo reć' "bol" kroz koju svakako moram proći kako bi se tijelo prilagodilo na funkcioniranje bez opijata? Nekako mislim da samo odgađam neizbježno. Imam još svega par tableta tako da nema govora o nekakvoj navici niti mi pada na pamet nabavljati ga opet. Samo želim da sve ovo završi, da normalno spavam, da se ne osjećam čitavo vrijeme kao da me netko iscipelario i da mi je duša isčupana iz tijela...

Uglavnom treba gurati, iz sata u sat, iz dana u dan.... Nema druge. Btw, nikad neću zaboravit izreku koju sam čuo od momka koji je desetak godina proveo na robiji, a zajedno smo se skidali... Kaže ovako: "I ovo će se jednom jučer zvati". To mi se urezalo u pamćenje i stalno se toga sjetim kad mi je teško.

Opet sam se prilično iskukao, jbga tako je valjda čovjeku lakše, svoju muku podjelit s drugima. Kako god, ovo skidanje jeste vrlo zajebano, ali budimo realni, niti na koji način se ne može uspoređivati sa skidanjem s dopa, posebno sa povećih količina kad povračaš i sereš u isto vrijeme, da izvinete (dobro, danas su lako dostupni hepovi/bupovi pa se i to može olakšat, ali eto, usporedbe radi... btw, jadni Rusi su valjda jedna od zadnjih nacija koja nema održavanje hepovima/bupovima, ljudi se tamo muče cold turkey, sami kuhaju droge od kodeina, razrijeđivača i sl. sastojaka ne bi li skinuli krizu, užas.

I da, ispod se nalazi aktualni timeframe dosadašnjeg tappera:

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09.09.  pet	4.0 mg
10.09.  sub	2.0 mg

---//---

17.09.  sub	2.0 mg
18.09.  ned	1.8 mg
19.09.  pon	1.6 mg
20.09.  uto	1.3 mg
21.09.  sri	0.8 mg
22.09.  čet	0.4 mg
23.09.  pet	0.2 mg
24.09.  sub	0.1 mg
25.09.  ned	0.0 mg
26.09.  pon	0.9 mg
27.09.  uto	0.0 mg
28.09.  sri	0.0 mg
29.09.  čet	0.0 mg
30.09.  pet	0.0 mg
01.10.  sub	0.0 mg
02.10.  ned	0.0 mg
Ajte poy.
Last edited by noel on Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
MasacreEnElDiscoBar wrote:sad vishe neznam di sam...samo mjenjam droge...uff...koje sranje ochu se rjeshit te ovisnosti a, molim Boga da mi ostavi neshto....
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ziki
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by ziki »

Tramal je brza navlakusa.
Posle 3,4 dana za redom kad uzimas pa prekines osecas se kao da te pregazio kamion.
Bolje ti je da se uvece najedes i popijes kilo vina ili par piva i da zaspis kao covek.
Ovako moze da te stigne i kriza od Tramala pa da ti tek onda bude veselo.
Ako krene da te boli kicma posle i da te vrti u krevetu da ne mozes da se namestis, onda je to Tramalcic..
A mozda i nece od 100 mg mada..vec 150 mg je navlacenje to pouzdano znam iz licnog iskustva.
...
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noel
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by noel »

Čisto sumnjam da se za nekoliko dana možeš navući, pa i nabavio sam ih od par prijatelja koji su ih koristili cca mjesec ili više dana radi raznih bolova (kičma, zglobovi) i jednostavno su prekinuli uzimati, bez ikakvih posljedica. To je opioid kratkog trajanja (tzv. short-acting) koji usput blokira ponovo preuzimanje serotonina i norepinefrina, pa otuda i high na višim dozama. Skidanje je gadno, jako slično skidanju s bupa... s dodatnim problemima radi utjecaja na serotoninske receptore.

Uglavnom, ostala mi je jedna tableta od 75mg, to ću si vjerojatno noćas uzeti da probam normalno odpsavati... i gotovo. Bup je vjerojatno već vani i sad već mogu početi razmišljati što dalje.... Ne znam da li odmah počnem s AD-om ili da probam kombinaciju vitamina + minerala + aminokiselina + vježbanje? Prvo je lakše i daleko jeftinije, pa samim tim i privlačnije, ali nemam preveliku želju opet prčkati po receptorima... Uglavnom ovaj nedostatak energije, nepokretljivost i depresija je neizdrživo... bolje da što prije nešto napravim u vezi toga nego da riskiram recidiv, kao što se desilo trgupu s foruma (trgupe ako čitaš ovo javi se).
MasacreEnElDiscoBar wrote:sad vishe neznam di sam...samo mjenjam droge...uff...koje sranje ochu se rjeshit te ovisnosti a, molim Boga da mi ostavi neshto....
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sanela
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by sanela »

noel wrote:da probam kombinaciju vitamina + minerala + aminokiselina + vježbanje? .
Ovo ti je sigurno bolja i zdravija opcija.
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noel
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by noel »

Jeste da, ali bome košta... vježbat ću se svakako natjerati, baš sam i započeo prije skidanja s trčanjem, planiram nastaviti kad mi se energija malo povrati....

Image

*naišao sam na super tekst o prirodnom oporavku kad su opiodi u pitanju, izvrstan je ali na engleskom... budem okačio pa tko razumije, razumije, predugačak je da prevodim.
MasacreEnElDiscoBar wrote:sad vishe neznam di sam...samo mjenjam droge...uff...koje sranje ochu se rjeshit te ovisnosti a, molim Boga da mi ostavi neshto....
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noel
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Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by noel »

Many people addicted to oxys, hydro, heroin, fentayl, or other opiates are concerned about what to expect AFTER the initial WITHDRAWAL period (~3-10 days, depends on the drug).

The reality of Recovering from Opiate addiction is that there is an initial "HELL" period (immediate withdrawal) that is followed by a much longer, much milder period of time while the body is fine-tuning the nervous system, and while the body's own endogenous opiate system (endorphin) is recuperating.

There are 2 basic stages of opiate withdrawal.

1. The Short-lived, Acute, intense, immediate withdrawal which occurs directly after stopping all opiates. "clucking", shakes, profuse sweating, chills, gooseflesh, body temperature instability, autonomic instability, "revved-up," diarrhea, cramping, bone pain, mental anguish, etc. (takes ~3 to 10 days depending on the half-life of the drug)

2. PAWS or "Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome." This is the more drawn-out phase of withdrawal...as the body learns to cope without the drugs. includes boredom, insomnia, self-doubt, 'restless legs,' depression.


I believe from my own experience, combined with reports from recovering opiate addicts and the physiology involved that the initial withdrawal is the big, feared MONSTER associated with feelings of sickness and delirium, whereas PAWS can be extremely different for different people. PAWS seems to be more akin to a "waiting game" with fears of overwhelming boredom than an acute sickness. The most important thing to remember during PAWS is AWARENESS that PAWS IS ONLY TEMPORARY!

With time, PAWS will go away!! In fact, with few exceptions, it seems that with every passing week, PAWS symptoms can be demonstrated as improving--sometimes DRAMATICALLY compared to the weeks prior.

Some Reasons why PAWS takes several months to get over:

1. Behavioral changes are necessary in order to learn new and solid pathways for the brain's reward circuit, and

2. It takes MUCH LONGER for your effective neurotransmitter levels and nerve conduction parameters to return to normal, pre-addiction levels.

And depending on your expectations and how you approach these critical 're-building' and 're-organizing' phases, will go far in how well you'll feel during and after withdrawal.

What can be done to HELP your nerve conduction while re-equilibrating to life without opiates? (or "How to Maximize Your Neuronal Signaling During Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome.")

∙ Boost the deficient neurotransmitters.
∙ Maximize electrical conduction ALONG the nerve.

1. BOOSTING THE DEFICIENT NEUROTRANSMITTERS.

First, let's talk about boosting the neurotransmitters. For the opiate addict, this means SPECIFICALLY "ENDORPHIN"---short for "Endogenously Produced Morphine" aka "Endomorphine" aka "ENDORPHIN."

There are some things you should know about endorphins. They are the body's natural opiate. Endorphin is released naturally in response to pain, orgasm, exercise, laughter, positive thoughts, secondary messengers responsible for fevers & immune responses, and there are other potential triggers including prayer.

These tips may not seem like earth-shattering phenomena by themselves, but believe me, when these steps are clustered and performed regularly, THEY REALLY DO HELP!!!

Common activities known to boost endorphin levels/satisfy cravings:

Chocolate. Chocolate has a mild effect on endorphins.

Candy. Actually any kind of sugary candy boosts natural endorphin levels. Candy helps most with early stages of withdrawal. Lab mice experiments have shown sugary sweets appease craving after abruptly cessation of morphine. Swim practically LIVED on Reese's Pieces, sour candies, M&M's, and those 'tiny' Hershey Kisses for 8 TO 10 WEEKS! Note: he did not gain or lose weight during this time.

Exercise. This is #1. Force yourself to walk out the front door. FORCE YOURSELF to walk 2-3 blocks from your front door…then you turn around and get 2-3 additional blocks in for good measure. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!!! The best exercise is running/jogging/spinning/anything aerobic. Second best is walking or yoga. Somewhere in-between the two is weight lifting. Weight lifting or resistance-training can be done in a fraction of the time and there is evidence to show that this kind of exercise might benefit the MOST at the late stages of withdrawal (i.e. insomnia from 'restless legs').
some medical professionals believe the positive feeling you get when you meet a physical challenge, rather than the exertion itself, is what stimulates the endorphin release....(how much endorphin-release you get) is all about intensity and duration.
∙ Accomplishment. That's right. Any kind of accomplishments. Small ones, big ones. Just be sure you're PLANNING and EXECUTING daily. Anything that fosters a feeling of self-accomplishment and PRIDE will cause your brain to squirt out some Endogenous Morphine.

∙ Sex. Orgasms release endorphins. You've probably already figured this one out… OR--more likely, you've noticed that your sex drive has gone down to almost NOTHING while on opiates. This is normal. I can explain the hormones of it later if you're interested. The point is, you've replaced the endorphin-rush of sex with one that requires no build-up, no mess, and no chance of rejection. Do not feel embarrassed if you become a masturbation machine. This is also a normal part of recovery. Eventually, the sex act itself will be overshadowed by the LOVE aspect.

∙ Love. Love is a complicated emotion. It's the fuel for poets, playwrights since recorded history and the need for it traces all the way back to the first man and woman. HOWEVER!! SEXUAL LOVE IS *NOT* WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE!!!! Ultimately, your most long-lasting, gratifying experiences outside of drugs will come from the experience of giving AND RECEIVING love. Get creative with this. Love your enemies. Remember people's names. Start remembering birthdays. Surprise someone with your generosity. Next time you mow the lawn, cut your neighbor's grass…and take his trash out to the street. Donate time to feeding the homeless. There's literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of small things you can do to put forth love out into the world. *THIS* is the true secret to learning how to live without opiates! And believe it or not, the rewards are MUCH GREATER than even the best heroin you'll ever do!!! But you've got to get up and DO SOMETHING!

∙ Sleep. Eventually---like in 4-6 months from now--your body's autonomic nervous system will stop being 'revved-up' all the time. Eventually, you will be able to sleep again without having to knock yourself in the head with a sledgehammer! When this day comes, BE PREPARED! Start going to bed as early as possible, to allow yourself a good 7 or 8 hours of restful sleep. Your endorphin levels will naturally increase from the circadian rhythm, plus you'll allow yourself the luxury of copious dreaming--not only endorphin-releasing, but overall will make your days more relaxing and give your psyche plenty of time to play.

∙ Eat a hot Chili Pepper. *
The rush you get after holding one on your tongue is likely due to your body's protective response. "Chewing a hot pepper can release endorphins centrally and on the tongue," says Dr. Hirsch. Why? To reduce pain, of course.
∙ Think Positive Thoughts.* Placebos, prayer and positive thinking all trigger endorphin release according to Dr. Slotnick.

∙ Get Emotionally Moved *
Dr. Fuhrman says that viewing beautiful art, watching a touching dramatic scene or even listening to an inspiring piece of music can produce endorphins. "A person who gets pleasure in life, from whatever source, will keep endorphins at a healthy level," he says.
∙ Undergo Acupuncture.*
"Putting needles into the body is a release," says Dr. Fuhrman, "and it may trigger endorphin production." Also, acupuncture patients benefit from a placebo effect -- they believe that the process is working, so it really does, says Dr. Fuhrman. Talk about the brain's power.
Endorphin factor: 3 (NOTE: HIGHEST LEVEL). People who use acupuncture tend to be positive thinkers, which adds to the effects.
∙ Be Afraid.*
Whether you're watching a horror movie... or feeling a rush of wind in your hair as you plummet down a steep incline on a roller coaster, fear causes endorphin release. Why do you think extreme sports are so popular? No one wants to get hurt; it's just fun (in a twisted kind of way) to cheat death. "The thrill of a high-speed ride induces a positive mood state that can leave you giddy," says Dr. Hirsch. And Freddy Krueger can do it for you too. Who knew he was such a heartthrob?
∙ Watch a Funny Movie or TV Show. More specifically, research has proven that simply the expectation of watching one's favorite funny movie releases Beta-endorphin and human growth hormone.** Go ahead and buy the Seinfeld Box DVD.

2. MAXIMIZING NERVE CONDUCTION. or How to Increase Electrical Conductivity WITHIN Neurons.

The portion of your body that is re-learning its own equilibrium WITHOUT OPIATES is essentially an aquatic salt-water ecosystem that runs almost entirely off electrolytes (+ and - particles called "ions" dissolved in solution) and VERY THIN membranes. These membranes are "semi-permeable" which means that with some assistance from various proteins, these membranes allow your body to separate and partition off positively-charged & negatively-charged ions. This creates VOLTAGE--the difference in charges across a membrane or "potential energy."

You can imagine the separated + and - ions as being like a battery. As long as the membranes are intact and your body is able to separate positives from negatives, then your batteries are "charged." But, if you punch a hole in one of the membranes or stop actively separating out positives from negatives, you end up with a lifeless or DEAD battery. ions from

Anytime you 'fire' off a neuron, an "ON" signal is propagated from somewhere deep inside the brain, along a LOOOONG axon, that ends by terminating into either another neuron (inside the brain) or somewhere else outside the brain (like a muscle or a salivary gland, for example).

If you were to tell yourself, "I am now Lifting my right fore-finger," then a neuron in your brain's motor cortex will first "fire" using a neurotransmitter. But the signal actually travels all the way down on a single neuron from the brain to your right arm. All the way down a discrete "wire" found in a bundle of other wires (your spinal cord) until the single nerve cell finally ends on muscles in your forearm where ANOTHER neurotransmitter is released, cause you to LIFT YOUR RIGHT FOREFINGER.

Why the description? well, the FIRST step involved in this example involves a neurotransmitter. In this case, the neurotransmitter is called acetyl-choline... but there are plenty of other neurotransmitters whose functions are to transmit various ideas, emotions, reactions, reflexes, memories, etc.

The SPECIFIC neurotransmitter you're missing is ENDORPHIN. Earlier in this post, I listed suggestions to help you SHOWER your brain with endorphin--and these will make you feel much better. If you can assimilate some or all of these activities into your daily routine, then you'll not only be back to normal very soon, BUT (swear to GOD) you'll actually FEEL MUCH BETTER THAN YOU DID ON OPIATES!!!

The reason I went thru the whole explanation of the + and - ions, the function of cell membranes to partition off these charged particles, and how that nerves & thus your entire brain FUNCTIONS by using a continuous flow of ions in and out of various partitions is because I want you to really REALLY UNDERSTAND something about how our bodies work.

You see, all this fine detail about nerve transmission can ONLY take place under ONE condition. And this is one of the most convincing arguments for evolution that I've ever heard… The ONLY PERFECT ENVIRONMENT for the proper flow of electricity and nerve conduction is found---IN THE OCEAN!

Fortunately, our body's have a "waxy coat" of skin that traps the ocean INSIDE US!

So, whenever you hear someone say "SALT IS BAD FOR YOU", you can tell them they would be DEAD if it weren't for the salt they eat!

Without getting too involved in this, just know that your body has exquisite mechanisms for hanging onto precious minerals and filtering out 'excess' ions. This is mostly done by the kidneys. HOWEVER, your body has NO WAY of either DILUTING or CREATING electrolytes. (i.e. sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, & trace minerals)

So, HOW CAN YOU ASSIST YOUR BODY IN ACHIEVING THIS OPTIMUM AQUEOUS ENVIRONMENT???

Simple. Drink plenty of water. Plain water. Not colas, not coffee, not beer. Your body will utilize pure water to form the MOST PERFECT, EXACT ion levels in the various partitioned areas. Unlike what many people believe, drinking extra water does NOT go straight into your piss!! Rather, the water goes from your GI tract, into your bloodstream where it is then dispersed EVENLY throughout every single cell in your body!

That's right…when you drink a glass of pure water, that water becomes almost instantly available to EACH AND EVERY CELL IN YOUR BODY, in order beginning with those cells which NEED WATER THE MOST! So, those cells which urgently need this pure water will get 'first dibs', and so on until the water has been evenly dispersed.

What do the cells DO WITH this pure water??

∙ Rejuvenate Cell Processes/Restore Cellular Health. First off, the new water allows overly-concentrated, sluggish, toxic (dehydrated) cells to return to their original healthy size, shape, & texture. You may recall from biology that a single water (H2O) molecule is generated in cellular energy generation (called respiration). Glucose and Oxygen are transformed into energy, releasing CO2, and H2O. Well, if your teachers were like mine, they neglected to teach how important pre-EXISTING H2O was for this energy to be produced in the first place! Without a surplus of pure H2O, NONE of this energy can be produced!!

∙ Eliminate Toxins. This pure water is necessary for your muscles (and other cells) to mobilize their toxic byproducts for excretion in to the urine. Plus, the additional water will optimize sub-cellular activities that have become erratic or sub-optimal from dehydration, built-up waste materials, and are living in an overall unbalanced, unhealthy state. These molecular-level processes will be cleansed by way of excessive hydration, dilution of toxins, and toxic elimination when these toxins are absorbed along with excess water into the bloodstream and almost immediately filtered into the urine. This 'flooding' leads to a "clean slate" on a sub-cellular level, which then allows the cell's energy production to normalize, which translates into higher energy, more energy efficiency on the tissue & organ level which affects the energy and health that we "FEEL" as organisms!!

∙ Enhance Normal Nerve Conduction Velocity. Remember all that talk about positive and negative ions being separated by membranes to form a 'biological battery'?? Well, one of the most vitally important pieces of the nerve-conduction puzzle is adequate hydration! Adequate hydration allows nerves to conduct their signals FASTER and also allows each nerve to 'reset itself' FASTER as well! So, in essence, adding pure water into your body will make your brain and muscles faster and more efficient--as though your neurotransmitter levels were actually HIGHER--when in reality, you haven't done anything to change your neurotransmitter levels!

When your urine has any yellow coloration or smells, this signifies waste products and toxins that your body must ELIMINATE in order to create this perfect aqueous environment for your nerve cells, muscles, and every tissue.


HOW MUCH WATER SHOULD YOU DRINK? honestly, everyone is different. People going through drug withdrawal require more water than someone whose tissues are already in equilibrium. Your need for 'extra' water during times of stress or drug detoxification will be obvious by the color and smell of your urine.

RULE OF THUMB REGARDING PURE WATER CONSUMPTION: Your urine should be clear and have no smell. This signifies optimal hydration.

∙ Vitamins and Minerals. For fastest re-equalization, you should take ONE daily vitamin with minerals. These days, most every daily vitamin includes minerals as well as folate (aka folic acid). Don't waste your money on expensive vitamins or supplements. All you need are the basic RDA. The *REAL* secret to maximizing the absorption of vitamins is to simply take them WITH FOOD. Taking excess or "mega-dose" vitamins is just a waste of vitamins. 250mg to 500mg of Vitamin C per day is also encouraged, especially in the first few months of withdrawal.

The basic message is to take care of the things that you probably never even THOUGHT ABOUT while on the junk. Things like making sure to take vitamins, eat balanced meals to provide sustenance, exercising and drinking PLENTY OF WATER!

There are also other threads which discuss supplements which can be taken to boost other neurotransmitters like norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin.

---

* Endorphins 101: Your Guide to Natural Euphoria, Slotnick, MD David & Walke, Melissa. YourTotalHealth.ivillage.com

**Just Expectation Of A Mirthful Laughter Experience Boosts Endorphins. American Physiological Society session at Experimental Biology 2006, Lee S. Berk of Loma Linda University, 07 Apr 2006
MasacreEnElDiscoBar wrote:sad vishe neznam di sam...samo mjenjam droge...uff...koje sranje ochu se rjeshit te ovisnosti a, molim Boga da mi ostavi neshto....
Frajla
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:01 pm

Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by Frajla »

Posto si dugo bio na bupu i sa ostalih tableta si se skoro skinuo, predlazem ti i jedno drugo. I ad i vitamine minerale aminokiseline.... Jer samo oni ne mogu pomoci koliko je nama potrebno.
Ad pijes dok se ne stabilizujes, on ce ti i dati snagu za sve ovo sto si naveo u tekstu. Bar meni dok sam bila sj..bana nije bilo do ljubavi, spavanja i druzenja i ostalog navedenog.
Ja samo sumnjam da ce te proci to stanje za 10 dana koliko cenis.... Ali da ne budem partibrejker
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noel
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by noel »

Frajla wrote:Ja samo sumnjam da ce te proci to stanje za 10 dana koliko cenis.... Ali da ne budem partibrejker
Mislio sam na akutno stanje prilikom rapidnog detoxa kao što je moj (cca desetak dana), zaista bi se većina simptoma trebala umanjiti.... Svjedočio sam tome iz prve ruke, spomenuo sam gore u tekstu. Znam da me čeka umor, letargija, depresija i sve ostalo što ide s PAWS-om odnosno s prilagodbom mozga na rad bez umijetnih opioida.

Još ne znam za što ću se odlučiti, možda čak i oboje... Slika gore prikazuje koliko je to financijski gadno, ali onda opet, nekad sam bez razmišljanja davao četiri glave za gram... na ovom ne bi trebalo štedjeti.
MasacreEnElDiscoBar wrote:sad vishe neznam di sam...samo mjenjam droge...uff...koje sranje ochu se rjeshit te ovisnosti a, molim Boga da mi ostavi neshto....
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ziki
Posts: 1029
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:29 am
Location: Motherland-SRB

Re: Skidanje s buprenorfina - pravilan način

Post by ziki »

Kriza od Trodona nije slicna skidanju sa Buprenorfina.
Izvini ali nisi u pravu, vise je slicnija skidanju sa Heroina a vrlo cesto i teza i gora od Heroinske krize.
Doza od 150 mg dnevno uzeto odjednom zagarantovano posle nedelju dana stvara zavisnost, sto naravno zavisi i od osobe do osobe, i metabolizma itd.
Vidim da pokusavas da se bavis strucnim medicinskim nacinima da sebi pomognes sto pozdravljam, ali jedno su knjige a drugo je praksa.
Zao mi je sto je Voyager obrisao svoje tekstove, jer smo u njima mnogo pricali i o Trodonima, Buprenorfinima, Heroinu itd...
Nismo ovde samo da se tesimo u mukama, vec i da iznosimo istinite cinjenice o tim supstancama.
Ja ti zelim da istrajes u borbi sa Buprenorfinom i uvek imaj pri svesti ono sto si i sam rekao, Buprenorfin je nista za pravu krizu..mleko.
To stanje cak i ne moze da se nazove krizom vec je to jedna promena za ceo organizam, kao i za psihu, koja zahteva neku vrstu rehabilitacije i vracanje u predjasnje stanje.
Buprenorfin ce da izadje iz krvi relativno brzo ali neki problemi nece nestati zajedno sa tim.
Kao sto rekoh jedna vrsta rehabilitacije.
Pozdrav.
...
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